16. Adrienne Trimble, Global Diversity Leader on Owning Your Place at the Table

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Ep 16. Transcript

Alisa Manjarrez: Rosa, start us off with some chitchat and then I’ll introduce the episode.

Rosa Santos: What are you guys eating this days? Are you cooking?

Alisa Manjarrez: I’ve been having lots of cold brew this morning. I had, and I don’t know if this works with all cold brews, but I had just ice, coffee and a little like swirl of orange rind. And I made it like a cocktail. Like I expressed the oils of the rind and then like rimmed my glass and then had the coffee.

I felt this morning, I was like, this is like a coffee cocktails. It was amazing.

Merary Simeon: You did that this morning? I… that’s too much work. I need just straight up Cafe Bustelo. That’s all I need.

Rosa Santos: I can do me one of those right now. The one thing that I’m doing with cooking lately, you know, I watch a lot of cooking shows, but I never do anything. But now I am watching these shows and I say, okay, at least I have to make one thing out of each show that I, watch.

So I’ve started do that, and I’ve done a couple of things that were really good. I made this sauce, this very spicy sauce, that was meant to last in the fridge for three months, we ate it in two days. Um, it was a large quantity, but we put it everywhere. It was so good. And I feel so accomplished. So…

Alisa Manjarrez: Rosa, I don’t know if you know this, but Merary was on my other podcast, Seriously Though, and she talked about cooking sofritos.

Merary Simeon: Let’s get it right. The seasoning, not actual cooking.

Alisa Manjarrez: Yeah, and she puts them in ice cubes.

Rosa Santos: Oh, wow.

Merary Simeon: Yeah, we freeze them, and then you just have those spices every time you cook they’re fresh. It doesn’t matter what type of food you put them in.

[theme music starts]

Rosa Santos: Awesome. Yes, I want that. I do want that.

Alisa Manjarrez: I’ll send you the recipe for her, for Merary.

Merary Simeon: Thank you. I think you’d like it actually.

Alisa Manjarrez: Yeah. She said it tastes like the Island of Puerto Rico.

[laughter]

Alisa Manjarrez: Welcome to Color Forward, a podcast highlighting successful women who have overcome cultural adversity and mastered the art of resilience.

[theme music ends]

Alisa Manjarrez: Last season we were talking about what we were cooking and what we were eating, because COVID had just hit and now we’re right in the middle of it still.

We thought we would be towards the end but our focus for now is the future of work. We’re kicking this off with Adrienne Trimble. She is the president and CEO of the National Minority Supplier Development Council.  She’s a thought leader for advancing corporate diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. And formerly Adrienne was general manager of Diversity of Inclusion at Toyota, where she told us she was only the second black woman in an executive position at the entire company. So, very impressive.

Rosa Santos: There were so many things that I related to in this conversation with Adrienne, because I can look back even within the last few months, which is like more recent, where I’m thinking, Huh, well, maybe I should have, you know, raised my voice or maybe I should have said this in a different way, or maybe I should have utilized my seat at a table in a different fashion.

[emotional background music starts]

And I think finding a way to remind ourselves that we can do that, we should identify what ways those are for each and every one of us.

Adrienne Trimble: When my career first started, I was very timid, very quiet, very much an introvert, because I was, I was intimidated. I would walk into these rooms again, being that only, and you walk in like, Oh my gosh, am I supposed to be here? And I will say some of that wisdom just comes with age and with lessons that you learn and people that you meet and saying, Okay, yes, I do deserve to be here. I’ve worked hard. I’ve earned it. I deserve it. And I’m going to own it. And that probably happened, I would say when I, when I got a little bit older in age and my mid forties where I learned, Hey, it’s okay. And that’s just something that comes with time. It came with time for me. 

Just do it. Just, just go ahead and make the statement, but always remember that you have to make it in a way that it will be received. Because communication is two way. So you have to make sure that it’s being communicated in a way that the person can receive it and can hear it. But use your voice.

That’s why you’re at the table. You have… if you’ve been invited into these rooms it’s because someone thought that what you had to say was important. So when you get in that room, say what you think is important, because that’s why you’re there and you don’t want to miss that opportunity once it’s given.

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Alisa Manjarrez: I think a lot of times when people are younger in their careers, even if they do have a seat at the table, they’re like, do I belong here? Should I even be here? Why am I here? Am I here by mistake? I think it’s really easy to get into your head about all of that, versus saying I’m here and I’m going to take advantage of my place at this table and give my opinions whether they’re listened to or not.

Rosa Santos: I think there are opportunities at a table or the table, and you should be there and take advantage of those in an optimistic, positive way. And you should take that opportunity to move that conversation just by the mere factor that you are there.

I think you have a responsibility to move the conversation forward, right? And by, by intervening and by, by utilizing your voice and your, your perspective and your opinion.

Adrienne Trimble: I know, and I recognize that I am where I am today because others paved the way and poured into me.

And I truly believe that we are not given our talents and blessings for us alone. It is for us to share with others and to share with the world essentially. So for me to pour into the next generation or the next or anyone else helping to accomplish their goals, that’s what makes me feel purposeful.

Like I’ve like I’ve accomplished something when I could see someone else accomplish their goals and know that I was able to help impact that or influence that in any kind of way. So that’s what actually drives me. What inspires me and what encourages me is that people can accomplish so much if people just believe in them and help them accomplish their goals and be a part of their success versus a part of their challenges or their struggle. 

Alisa Manjarrez: I’ve been handed the position of having a voice over and over throughout my career. The first company I worked for the CEO basically made me his right hand man, even above other people older than us. And so, because he gave it to me, I took it, maybe naively, and I used it and it gave me authority and permission, and then I never backed down from that point on.

And I’m so thankful for that CEO for giving me that, because that was his choice too. I was 23, something like that, and he’s giving me a lot of power that I definitely didn’t deserve, but I think that kind of also goes back to the idea of having sponsors, role models, people who believe in you, and it really can change your whole trajectory.

Merary Simeon: And it’s the difference between getting or having those people that do sponsor you and allow you to use your power? Because when you said that it made me think when I first started my career and, uh, the CHRO at the time, his name was Mr. Fino, Ray Fino, back then they used to call them Mr’s. I’m dating myself. And it was just like you said, he would give me the power and I took it. I didn’t know any better ‘cause I was so young, but then I’ve also, growing up in the corporate environment, I’m just trying to think, when did I start letting go of that power and when did it get taken away from me?

When you started talking about that, it made me think of, Wow, I remember I had so much power, because he gave it to me, and everybody knew I was supporting the CHRO and I had the power. And it’s interesting as I went on in my career, how people silenced my voice and I let them. At the end of the day, I let them. And how it started shaking me in a way that I started feeling less smarter or that I knew less or things of that nature.

And I was just trying to think at what point in my life did I lose my voice because they gave it to me when I first started. 

Rosa Santos: I wonder whether I think with maturity comes also, you trying to assess consequences. Maybe it’s fear, and it’s interesting ‘cause it shouldn’t happen, right? But I think as you get older you’re taking into consideration certain risks that come attached with the things that you might choose to act upon and what consequences that may have overall in your career or maybe your employment.  And it may not be explicit, like that you consciously are doing that, but it’s in the back of your mind.

So I think once it happens, there’s a possibility that you could just get into a, into a loop that it’s harder to get out of and don’t allow others to take that power away from you. And we talk a lot about the micro aggressions, even though in the moment you don’t realize, right? And you think that you’re making the right choice for yourself, but in fact, what the micro aggression is doing is truly taking the power away from you and giving it back to, to whomever is silencing you. And that’s not right. That is absolutely not right.

Rosa Santos: I keep going back to the need of having strong role models in our lives. Especially when you work in a corporation and you, you need to find someone you can look up to, someone you can learn from, and just hearing her sharing a lot about the importance of having mentors or sponsors, et cetera, was, was again, very reassuring in that way.

But the other piece for me was how her mother also was a very strong role model that really propelled her to make certain decisions, to make certain choices in life that really catapulted her to work.

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Adrienne Trimble: For me, it really goes back to the way I was raised. Again, my mother was very independent, very outspoken, very opinionated. And for me, I think I’ve picked up some of those traits, and the rules I’ve probably broken is that sometimes particularly as girls and as women, we’re supposed to be kind of quiet and demure in that challenge.

I didn’t get that memo. So I do question when I don’t understand something and I don’t just accept an answer simply because that’s what’s given to me. I have to understand the why behind it. And sometimes that frustrates people, particularly those who were in higher level positions of responsibility that you feel as if though, I’ve given you an answer, that should be the end of it.

But if it doesn’t make sense for me, if it doesn’t resonate, I’m going to continue to ask why and, and challenge that thinking. And sometimes that’s a great thing, because it helps to break through maybe something that others may be had not thought about. Other times it could be a little bit of a nuance in that, Okay. Adrienne, you just need to accept no, and move on. But for me, that’s probably the biggest rule that I think I’ve broken is that I just don’t accept no, as an answer. 

[background music ends]

Merary Simeon: Role models I think are so critical in all of our lives. And it’s interesting to think who’s our first role model, right, when you really start thinking about that. And when people ask me that question, I’ll name some role models, you know, from the recent years, but then when you really think back, who’s your first role model, it’s almost like the first person you probably fall in love with without knowing is your mother. I don’t know, at least for me, just knowing everything that she went through and continued to be this just amazing strong woman. My role model hands down is my mother. And it’s interesting what Adrienne said about, you know, as powerful as she is being, you know, the CEO of this organization. Her mother is her role model. I just thought that was, that was powerful, you know, Adrienne is not only a friend, but she’s also a role model to me. I can say that now, but again, when I think about who will be my first role model, Gosh, I know it’s my mother. Just watching her, her strength, you know, and taking care of raising three children, working the factory and still coming home and smiling and always saying everything’s okay.

I’m still learning from her. She just has so much wisdom to give me every single day, so…

Alisa Manjarrez: My mom and I always joke that, I never listened to her advice until after I turned 30.

Merary Simeon: I can relate.

Alisa Manjarrez: Growing up I never thought she was right. And she has… there’s a story where when I was two years old, singing jingle bells, I was singing it wrong and she was correcting me. And I was like, you don’t know, mom. It took 30 years for me to finally listen.

Merary Simeon: It’s funny you say that, because my daughter does that to me now, and my mother, you know, she lives with us, my mother’s like, you know, you were just, just like her. I’m like, no, I wasn’t. She’s like, Yes, you were. Meanwhile, to your point, my daughter’s like, no, you’re wrong, mom. I’m like, no, I’m not. And then my husband looks at me and he’s like, you know, you’re arguing with your six year old self, right?

And I was like, I can’t. It’s so scary. And then I see myself becoming mom, right? I’ll be like, Oh, Lord. But I agree with you, like in the… when I was younger, I would have never thought that now I look back and I’m like, wow, right, our parents are just so smart and they have so much wisdom. I wished I listened earlier.

Rosa Santos: Yeah, on the one hand it’s probably what you breathe at home from those who raised you. And I think we all have incredible parents to look up to and, and to learn from and on the other is then how you choose your role models as you get older and as you join a workforce or a company or an organization, et cetera, and you start really defining what your destiny may be.

And then who can be there for you? Who can really provide those nuggets of wisdom. And I just really appreciated that she made such an important point to say, you need to find those who are going to support you. You need to find those who are going to tell you like it is, and who are not going to be afraid to tell you that you’re doing something wrong so you can learn, so you can learn from it.

Merary Simeon: I love that, because even going back, I mean, who is the person that tells you you’re wrong and they tell you wrong because they love you. I guess, you know, start with your parents, right? You know, if you’re lucky to have them, but that was powerful to me, because how many times, you know, people give you feedback and sometimes you’re thinking, Ugh, but where it’s coming from, right, you don’t like it, because where it’s coming from. And later on to think that it was truly because they cared, there’s other times that people don’t give you feedback and you actually want it. I thought it was interesting when she said that her sponsors were the toughest on her to the point where she thought that they didn’t like her.

I mean, there’s a lot of people that I probably think don’t like me, but I don’t know if that’s… if they actually, you know, care. But I just thought that was an interesting way to look at it. And I love what you said, Rosa, that who are we listening to, right? Who are those people in our lives right now that we’re letting, or we’re allowing their feedback to impact our lives, whether it’s in a positive or a negative way.

Rosa Santos: I think I’ve shared this before, and I’ve been reflecting a little bit about that, about, you know, the tension between being who you are and showing up as who you are, and at the same time allowing others to come and tell you that the way that you’re showing up is not appreciated. And being able, I think, to embrace that paradox is very powerful. Because you know, let’s face it, we get feedback all that time, sometime solicit it, sometimes not. We do this all the time, and sometimes we’re not necessarily… you know, we feel so great about who we are and that we might be in the truth or the position of the truth we then don’t allow others wisdom to really course correct or maybe helping us choose a different vehicle to say, language or different kinds of engagement in which you, you know, you can be even more powerful in the way that you’re speaking up, in the way they’re using your voice and vice versa, right? So I’ve been really reflecting about this dichotomy lately, mainly because of what’s happening in our, country, right, in terms of like, who’s right? Who’s, who’s educating who, and how do we take that education and those learnings and being open to receiving feedback? It’s so hard, because as you Merary said, I may not like you, so why should I take your feedback for its face value, right? If I actually don’t respect who you are, or what you have to say, why would I listen to, to it or act on it or do anything around it?

Adrienne Trimble: For me, it was because I really wanted to learn and I really wanted to prove myself. And I wanted to prove to myself and to others that I deserve to be there, that I was just as good and just as capable as the next person. And I would work just as hard as the next person. So for me, it was always proving it to myself that I could do this, but I knew I needed the feedback.

If you don’t know what people really think then you don’t know how to close the gap. You don’t know what you’re supposed to address or how you’re supposed to respond to it. So for me, it was, I never looked at it as, Oh my gosh, this is the worst feedback I’ve ever received. I don’t, you know, I didn’t let it ruin my confidence.

I took it as, okay. I’ve heard it. I’m going to digest it. I’m going to take what I can to learn from it and apply it. So the next time I’ll be more successful. But it is, it is a very different lesson to learn when you’re earlier in your career, versus when you are later in your career. I can tell you now I will probably respond a little bit differently. 

Alisa Manjarrez: We do have a choice. So there’s like the point of maturity and receiving feedback and really taking it in. But then there’s also the power that we can take back by choosing what we do with that feedback and how we let it affect us.

Merary Simeon: Yeah, ‘cause what I was thinking is, it’s not so much whether I like you or not, it’s whether what you’re saying is you actually mean to make me better. Or you’re saying that to…

Alisa Manjarrez: Like the intention behind it.

Merary Simeon: The intentions behind it. Um, because I think there may be people who, the way they give feedback may be a little rough, but their intention is good, versus there are people that could give you really good sounding feedback, but their intentions are not good.

And we have the power to choose and to be smart about it, maybe even ask other people, right? Is this right? Does this sound right? Do I do this? Or have you seen me in other times, act like this? Or whatever it may be. I think it’s powerful to have the power to make a choice.

I also think we need to be very careful how we act on it. So even just checking with other people that are around you.  

Rosa Santos: But I think what you guys are saying is, something that she also alluded to in terms of, the journey, the growth, she being 30 and receiving certain feedback, versus she being in now, you know, years later, way more experienced, way more maturity, and probably, I don’t think she said this, but being more self confident and happier. I’m using happy, and maybe it’s not the right term, but being, being okay and proud. I think that choice also comes with that journey a little bit, and perspective. 

I’m not saying that if you don’t have that journey, you don’t have their perspective. But you might call on others to your point, Merary, to validate whether, you know, you should take that feedback or not, right? And whether you should act on it.  

Merary Simeon:  I know it’s happened to me, right? I feel now I’m more courageous and I’ll speak up even when I’m fearful. And I also believe that even when I receive the feedback, I feel like now I can interpret it a little smarter, versus just go and react on it. So I don’t know if you all have experienced that in your career journey.

More on Handling Feedback

Adrienne Trimble: And that’s what it is, you have to look at it as a, as a development opportunity, a learning opportunity, and to help you grow and educate yourself and increase your own, your own awareness and being okay with yourself awareness and knowing what your limitations are as well and learning how to… 

All feedback is not good feedback, and learning how to sift through that, that’s just a process. And you learn from the people that you encounter, that you, that you interact with, how you can manage their feedback that they’re giving you.

Alisa Manjarrez: I’m taking a class on racial reconciliation and one of the trainers, her name is Veneto West, she’s from the Dr. King Center, and we’ve been talking a lot about race and power and who we give that power to. And we were talking about this idea of disappointment, and she said, and I wrote it down, she said, the only people who can be disappointed in me are those who had a hand in shaping me, and then she went on to say, and that’s my parents. Like they raised me, therefore they have a right to be disappointed at me. If you’re my boss, you cannot be disappointed in me unless you also helped shape me.

And I thought that was incredibly powerful, because I know that when I’ve had bosses that have said, they’re disappointed in me, I can crumble, but like, do they have that right?

Adrienne Trimble: Many times that I’ve walked into a room, I’m the only woman, I’m the only black, I’m the only black woman. So there’s a lot of “onlys” that I feel I’ve walked into the room with.

And, what I would say that when it comes to those cultural norms that you just feel and you have to, have to manage through, the one that probably gets me the most is making sure that my voice is heard. There are times that I felt that my male peers have spoken over me or I’ve, I’ve shared an idea or an opinion that no one responds to, then all of the sudden my male colleague says it, and it’s the best idea in the room. 

Rosa Santos: Your boss or your leader, your people leader in the workplace has the responsibility to shape you. So, if you are disappointed as a manager, say, that says more about you than it says about the person that you have on your team. And I go back to this idea of you’re only successful by way of how many other people you are making successful. So if it’s hard for you to come by and count with your fingers in your hands the people that you’ve made successful along your career journey, then you should reconsider, because then maybe you’re not as successful as you think you are.

Merary Simeon: I love that. I mean, I think anybody has the opportunity to, if they have the courage, to speak up and use that as a teachable moment, Because when you see somebody maybe giving a type of feedback that would destroy somebody versus helping them continue to move forward in their lives, it’s almost like, what am I doing when I see that happen, and am I using that as a teachable moment to somebody else to let them know, you know, what they’re doing is, to your point earlier, Rosa, it could be micro aggressions.

You may not realize, but what you just did, you actually just destroyed somebody’s life instead of helping them move forward. And maybe not just completely destroyed, it was just that one more thing, that one additional limited belief that you added to their life.

Rosa Santos: Right.

Alisa Manjarrez: And Adrienne calls the people out. Like that’s something that she’s learned and as she’s grown in her maturity, her career. If someone silences her or claims another idea of her own, she calls it out and she doesn’t care if it makes them uncomfortable. She says it how it is and she really uses her power.

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Adrienne Trimble: I’m that person raising their hand and say, well, excuse me, I just said that. Was there something that I didn’t say that you didn’t understand that now all of a sudden this is an acceptable ideal or along those lines. So I’m the one that will call it out.

But you have to be okay with making people feel uncomfortable. I have no problem with people feeling a little bit uncomfortable if it’s going to be a teachable moment for them. Simply to open up dialogue and gain an understanding so that you can look at things from different perspectives that can help us reach that common ground.

We, as women leaders, we have to understand that and own that power and own our voices and know that it’s okay to ask those questions in an inappropriate way.

Merary Simeon: I need to learn that. [laughter] Watch out world, I’m coming.

Rosa Santos: Yes, isn’t that inspiring?

Merary Simeon: Yes. I love that.

Rosa Santos: Inspiring and empowering, I would say.

Adrienne Trimble:  As women, we tend to have a hard time saying no and saying no without feeling guilty. We take on so much. We nurture and care for everyone else. We put ourselves last.

I’m learning that it’s okay to be selfish and to put me first, to put my own needs, my own wants, first, as long as it’s not hurting or taking away from anyone else. But it’s okay. And in order to do that, I’ve had to learn how to say no with no explanation and not feeling guilty. I’m not there yet, but I’m still working on it, because that’s just not how we were raised as women. We’re raised, you’re supposed to give all that you have and help any way that you can. But at some point you do have to take care of and preserve your own space. And it’s okay to say no. I have to practice it and just say no, and force myself not to go into the explanations, not to give all the reasons why.

It’s just no.

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Alisa Manjarrez: I like that she talks about the tension between urgency and then getting to the root cause. So when you are teaching someone, you, yes, speak up, but also take a little bit of time to see what they’re actually saying and what they really need to learn in that moment.

Merary Simeon: And that makes so much sense, especially with the situation going on around us. So many of us want to just jump to it instead of taking the time to listen and really learn. We have to actively listen and understand, because if we’re not understanding, then the words are just being wasted because we’re not learning.

Rosa Santos: And I think it is jumping into action too quickly. So I think that’s, that’s why I like that other factor to put into it, like, what is the urgency versus what you’re trying to accomplish. And sometimes we, we are just geared or it’s in our DNA to look for the problems and come up to a quick solution and action without really giving us an opportunity to really elaborate and maybe create more than one option that you can actually action upon. And maybe one of the options as you just said is, you mean, it may be as simple as having a conversation or just again, entertaining, further listening to learn, right?

Merary Simeon: And I think something that she said that was important, it’s not that there is an urgency, there is urgency, but what’s the point on implementing something that doesn’t get to the root cause. And I loved, you know, her easy tip to just the five whys. Well, why, why, why until you get to the root cause, especially with what’s going on in society today, and I know I keep saying that, but it could be with any issue, we jumped to fix it, but we really get at the, at the root cause.

So for example, did we just paint the house when it needed a whole, rebuilding, the problem is still there, right? The guts are still bad, but we just painted the house.

Rosa Santos: And then it’s, it’s really a waste of time, which we do a lot. And when you’re talking about jumping into another of the issues as she described this systemic issues that run through not just our society, but our organizations and corporations, where we are quick to bring, immediate fixes that don’t really address what you’re saying, Merary, the root, the root cause. And we don’t involve the right people to even just do the deep dive to get to that root cause.

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Adrienne Trimble: So one of the things I learned at Toyota, there was this, this, this process called the five why process. You ask the question and then when you get the answer, you ask why again, why again, because what you’re trying to get to is the root cause. Because right now we’re still talking about symptoms. We need to get to actually, what is the underlying real issue? Because if we just keep treating the symptoms, the problem doesn’t get solved. 

So for me, I think that’s what we have to do. We have to keep asking those questions why. Peeling back the onion and trying to get to what the real issue with what the root cause of the problems are. And I think that will help us be able to address some of those challenges once and for all. So that’s kind of what the… when I’m saying the corporations and…

And sometimes, I know like my own colleagues, and I think about things from the NMSDC perspective. I’m hearing from folks that, Oh my gosh, Adrienne, we need to get out there faster. We need to, we need to talk to these corporations and you need to be knocking on their doors. And I’m not saying we have to take a step back.

We have to listen first. We have to understand, because if we just jump out there, we may address the wrong problem. And then we’ll be having the same conversation 12 months from now. So let’s take, let’s take the time to really do some, some, some methodical problem solving to understand what those real barriers and challenges are so we can address them so that we eradicate once or for all we aren’t coming back to the same conversations that we’re having today.

You gotta listen and you have to take the time to be methodical and intentional around solving the problem.

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Merary Simeon: Even for ourselves, right? Think about it, Oh, I need to lose weight. Well, I’m just going to go on a diet. When the root causes, we got to take care of ourselves and we got to take care of our health, right? So I think it applies to everything absolutely in the corporate world, absolutely in the systematic things that are going on around us.

But when you bring it home to whether it’s the family or whether it’s your health, maybe what we lack is communication, right? Let’s get to the root cause versus changing, taking action and doing something else. So, I think it’s what I loved about it, it’s something that you can apply in your personal life, in your professional life at work, or even in just the situation all around us.

Adrienne Trimble: What I’m doing now specifically is I’m trying to just listen. Because I think that’s what’s missing in a lot of our, our interactions today is that we’re so busy trying to share our own perspective, that we aren’t listening to understand how someone else could be perceiving the same, the same issue.

So I’m really taking the time to listen, to try to understand, to make sure that I truly have a good grasp of what the issues are. And then working with people to provide common solutions instead of throwing solutions at people, you know? You have to make people feel a part of the solution that you’re trying to, trying to achieve.

And so for me, making sure that I’m working in that regard where I can actually help, help an organization understand what those issues are and how we can work together to achieve them. That helps us get to the same point together versus coming at it as adversaries. 

Merary Simeon: With everything that’s going on around those, just think about this, as Latinas, we see things in a way that other people do not, and we have an opportunity to teach others, leverage teachable moments for others. And I think I’m speaking for myself, there are times, and even just this week, where I could have made it a teachable moment, and I chose not to. And now I think about it like, wow, is it their fault or mine? Because I lost an opportunity to teach somebody something that could make a difference in the future. And so that the next person doesn’t have to go through that.

I thought that was very insightful and powerful, because more than ever today, as multicultural women, we have the opportunity to take advantage of the teachable moments and help advance what’s going on in society today.

Rosa Santos: I think we’re optimistic. That probably I go back to, is the receiver ready?

I want to believe that a lot of folks are ready. But they may not be ready. So maybe it’s even thinking what is it, or how can I say it in a way that, you know, the teachable moment comes a learning moment, that they truly learn.

Merary Simeon: I look at it two ways. It has to be a learning moment, however, I feel if I don’t use the stage at that moment, I’m going to be, I’m going to be regretting it.

Rosa Santos: Yeah, it passes. There are certain things that you need to call out. As she said, it was her idea and somebody else was presenting it. Hell yeah, you’re going to say, excuse me, I thought I had said that. And it’s a really good way of saying, I thought that I had already proposed that. Is there a different way that I should have proposed it? So then the lessening would have been there. So, so you’re taking it out of you taking it personally to really putting aside and then say, okay, we’re talking about the idea, how it was presented. The way I presented it wasn’t lesson two, so therefore, can you let me know how I should do it the next time? ‘Cause obviously this one time it didn’t work. 

So I absolutely think that those teachable moments or call out moments, we should definitely raise the bar there and grab them. I think when it comes to, to wanting somebody, to enhance their listening that’s where I would say, How can we do it in a way that you just are not just calling it out, but also make it more of a learning opportunity for them.

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And maybe even the way that I just described it, it becomes a learning opportunity as well.

Adrienne Trimble: And we know the systemic barriers do exist, whether those are race related, gender related… you can’t be successful unless you have the ability for everybody to contribute in a meaningful way to your goals and objectives and hit the bottom line. And if they have the characteristics and the talent to be able to move your organization forward, then you want to be able to allow them to do so. You don’t want to hold them back.

So how do we make sure that we get the best talent and leverage that talent a way that’s going to allow them to blossom within your organization? That’s where you have to remove some of systemic challenges, the implicit and the not so implicit biases that we know exist. How do we understand them and be able to manage through them and not allow them to affect decision-making?

That’s where I see my role in being able to have the biggest impact on how we move forward as a country is having those conversations and those interactions one at a time and trying to move those barriers.

Alisa Manjarrez: For more inspiring stories, please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you have a guest you’d love to hear on the show, send us a DM on Instagram at @colorforwardpod.

I’m Alisa Manjarrez, producer of Color Forward. Thanks for joining us and, please, leave us a review.

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