37. Nasutsa Mabwa, Disaster Restoration CEO, on Getting Through Life’s Most Stressful Events

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Episode Transcript

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Alisa Manjarrez: Congratulations. If you are listening to this podcast, you have survived a very stressful time in the world. Some might even call this past year a disaster. Rosa, I want to talk to you about a recent little disaster you had at your house. What happened?

Rosa Santos: Yeah, who hasn’t had a disaster, right, and disasters that when you least expect it, they appear, right? And you go like, Oh, great, here we are. What do we do? But I think I’m laughing a little bit about it, because for years we have a guest room in our house that never gets really utilized, and through COVID I decided actually to empty that room and make it, or transform it into an office, because I’m working from home. So I had done all that, what you’re supposed to be doing when you are, you know, painting and getting new window treatments and just make it a little bit more lively so I could spend hours on end in front of the computer. So when I was literally done doing that, the day after the roof decided to open up and…

Alisa Manjarrez: The day after?

Rosa Santos: Yes. Yes.

Alisa Manjarrez: Oh my gosh.

Rosa Santos: I know, but it was one of those things that, it’s been very, very cold in, in Chicago and the Midwest in general, so ice got accumulated up in the roof and as it was melting, it just seeped through the shell, I guess, and yeah, it was literally raining inside the house.

Alisa Manjarrez: Oh, my gosh. I just picture like your ceiling caving in. Is that what… and water flooding in, in the cold of winter?

Rosa Santos: I know, right? But by the best, I think the best image to really retain was both my husband and I with a cup of coffee, looking at everything, like the rain, sipping the coffee and saying like, yeah, so? What can we do? And all of the sudden I realized, well, maybe we should empty the closets. That’d be good.

So not everything would get all wet. And it was when we realized it’s like, Oh no, everything’s going to get ruined. But it was that moment of like looking at it as though it wasn’t happening, right?

Alisa Manjarrez: You’re just straight in denial. 

Rosa Santos: Literally sipping our coffee looking at the ceiling, it’s like, Yeah, it is happening. Now what? 

Alisa Manjarrez: Today we’re talking about a few different types of disasters and forms of stress, featuring a woman who serves your neighborhood, Rosa.

Rosa Santos: Yes, she does.

Nasutsa Mabwa: My name is Nasutsa Mabwa, and I am the president of ServiceMaster Restoration by Simons. And we are a Chicago located, family owned, MBE WBE, restoration company. I’m also a mom of two kids, 8 and 11.  

Alisa Manjarrez: Natsutsa specifically targets residential and commercial disaster restoration in Chicago, Oak park, the North Shore, and she works in this area of water, fire, flooding, COVID-19 disinfecting, and she’s the person to call when the unexpected happens.

Nasutsa Mabwa: Restoration is a really interesting, unique industry. And there’s not a lot of folks who look like me in this business. I got into it with my husband, who’s my business partner, and we provide disaster restoration for water, fire, flooding, mold remediation, and specialty cleaning, and how we pivoted our business this year was in March. We added a webpage for COVID 19 cleaning and disinfection when everybody was quarantined and people were finding out that they were ill and they just wanted to make sure things were safe and disinfected. 

Alisa Manjarrez:  At home, at work, in life, she was talking to us about her COVID-19 setup for her kids, and she’s like, Okay, kids, you have zone A and zone B, and this is how you’re going to get work done. Here’s your hydration schedule. I mean, she is like on it. 

But when life happens, after the point of denial for some people, you know, it’s really hard because things like this happen all the time. We’re living in this pandemic, nobody expected it. And then there are layers and layers of just life that also is unexpected and things that happen.

And, we’ve spoken to a lot of women of color on this podcast about their resilience and understanding what it’s like to go through their own personal storms, and I love hearing all the different coping mechanisms women have because it’s like this muscle that you’ve learned over life… through life experience to understand what it takes when things happen. And for Nasutsa she has a social work background and some of those skills that she learned really helped make these horrible life situations more manageable. 

Nasutsa Mabwa: Yeah, you just have to provide a lot of encouragement and support and try to create the calm during a very chaotic period. Tell people, it will go back to normal. You will get through this. It’s a temporary event. Although you feel like the walls are closing in on you, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. No matter how horrible it sounds, there’s always a way through it. No matter how bad you think it is, you will come out the other side. And there’s very little I could see that would surprise me at this point.

Alisa Manjarrez: So I’m curious for you, Rosa, how have you used your professional background as a coach in organizational development, what are some ways or some tools that you use for yourself for your own life?

Rosa Santos: No, I really like that you bring this up, because I think it helps a lot when we talk in terms of transferable skills and what a better way to transfer our skills in situations where, you know, are completely unexpected. And sometimes we think that we cannot manage the unexpected, but we know more and we have more ways of managing the unexpected than we will ever credit ourselves for.

So if anything, as we start this episode, I would love folks to think about it that way, because there’s a lot that you all have in your toolkit.

Alisa Manjarrez: We don’t even realize it.

Rosa Santos: Exactly. And your toolbox is helping you already to grapple with the unexpected. But I think I do have an innate ability to be flexible and I think flexibility and being able to adapt in the moment to what’s coming and just take it the way it is, that helps, let’s put it that way. It might be also the fact that if you give me a cup of coffee it always helps as well.

Alisa Manjarrez: If you give me a chocolate cupcake, I can get through any storm.

Rosa Santos: Right, exactly. Exactly. So, have those also in your toolbox, but, kidding aside, I think, you know, just embrace it and also knowing, for me it’s important, and I talk a lot at work and with colleagues and my team, and throughout the years of experience, sometimes we get really rattled over things that actually are totally out of our control.

So it’s always about grinding ourselves on what is it that I can control and in a situation such as, you know, the roof is caving in and water is pouring…

Alisa Manjarrez: Literally.

Rosa Santos: …there’s nothing we can do. And then it always helps, you know, being grounded sometimes on the now and, you know, Alisa, how much I love to plan. And I’m like death by planning kind of a person.

I love it, but COVID taught me like, forget it. And just being okay with it, and be open to the possibility, even if it’s a disaster, there’s always something good coming out of it. In that situation, I stumbled upon this super sweet, incredibly helpful roofer who was in need of cash and I posted in the neighborhood Facebook page if anyone needed a roofer. And I referred him, I think, to about 15 people. And then he called me back and said… to thank me because he and his family were absolutely in need of more work at that challenging time. So see, you never know why something like that happens, right?  

Alisa Manjarrez: That’s so cool. 

Rosa Santos: Again, it’s about framing or reframing that situation as well is a good skill to have.

Alisa Manjarrez: You could not fix your own roof. That was completely out of your control. You had to ask for help and when you’re able to look at a situation and like pause and think about what can I control? What can’t I? Where am I going to… How am I going to respond? How am I going to react? I remember, at one of my old jobs, I think I might’ve said this before on our podcast but, my boss, every time we would have like some disaster, we were in marketing and she would say, you know, we’re not curing cancer here. This isn’t the end of the world that this ad went out wrong. But sometimes in the moment it feels like the roof is caving in.

Rosa Santos: Exactly. Exactly.

Alisa Manjarrez: When we were talking to Nasutsa about her previous work experience before she was in this disaster relief, she actually has an MBA in urban policy and planning. She’s a very efficient project manager. And back in her day, when she was working in commercial real estate, she told us about an uncomfortable situation where she had to confront her boss. 

Nasutsa Mabwa: More often in commercial real estate development, it’s still very male dominated, and historically it’s been very white. So for me to work in that field for that long, I was always the only woman in the room. And I was usually always the only minority in the room. And I worked very well with men, it’s not an issue for me, but there were times where I felt like sometimes I wasn’t being heard and, you know, I finally realized if I just confronted it head-on it was usually the most successful.

One time I felt like I was being overshadowed by a person at the company I was working for, and I was trying to do all of these different positive things, these actions to move the project forward, because I was the face of the project, but this particular person sometimes was doing other things and there was just a lot of tension.

So I just asked for a private meeting and I brought up my concerns and how it was making me feel, which is kind of not always comfortable in the workplace to do that, but we had a little bit of a tense discussion. It didn’t go on very long, and I think he did try to make some effort to change how he had been interacting.

But I had to bring it up and I had to ask for the time and address the concerns. It wasn’t magically going to shift and I wasn’t going to be treated differently just because I was hoping it would be, I had to do something about it.

The people who are waiting, the nice people, the conservative, conventional be a nice girl, behave, look beautiful, do all the things that we were taught to do when we were younger. I mean, it doesn’t really get you anywhere, does it? 

Alisa Manjarrez: So she went and she talked to this man. She told him what she was feeling. And as she was talking, she was realizing how much this situation of not being heard and not being seen meant to her and her worst fear happened. 

Nasutsa Mabwa: I got very emotional and I started crying during the meeting and it was really tough, because I felt like the person was not necessarily listening and that I needed to convey what I had been feeling, but I had been holding it for so long, and when I really finally verbalized what was bothering me, I started crying.

The one thing I did not want to do, I did not want to cry or look emotional or have tears in my eyes during the meeting. And that’s what happened.

Alisa Manjarrez:  If you know Nasutsa, she is this no-nonsense very practical person. I would be personally embarrassed to cry in front of her because I feel like she’s so strong. And here’s a moment where she really broke down in an important meeting. And eventually things worked out, but gosh, I hate crying when I’m really upset or when something matters in a situation, especially at work where you’re not supposed to cry. And so I’m wondering, have you ever cried in a meeting, Rosa, like, and does it serve you or is crying a disaster at work?

Rosa Santos: Yeah. Oh my God. I think I manage my emotions. And I don’t think I ever get to a point, or have ever gotten to a point of crying my eyes out, but I think it has to do really also the way I was brought up and my parents really wanted these three very strong young women, you know, to make it in the world. And for them this, girls do not cry kind of approach to us. So when we were, you know, when we’re like, Oh… my dad used to say, Uh, catch it.  

Alisa Manjarrez: Oh, really?

Rosa Santos: Yes, yes. Yes. It was like a bit of a like, Okay, I can do this, I can do this. 

Alisa Manjarrez: He was like training you?

Rosa Santos: Yeah, it was a little bit of that training, right? And I have to say, I think that’s probably what’s worked for me. Now, having said that, I do think there’s been an evolution in terms of the, um, amount of tolerance that there is in the workplace to really pour your emotions over every single conversation or relationship that you have in the workplace. And I do think that organizations, in general, have become more human, as a whole. And really, I think we’ve all become more willing to listen with empathy and therefore it’s more accepted. 

And I think the pandemic as well has forced us to really rethink the places in which we want to be and how we want to show up in those places. And whether you feel that it’s okay to be who you are in those places. And if in that moment you feel that there is a moment where you feel overjoyed and you need to shed a tear that you can do that the same way that if you’re frustrated and that you need to do so. But I know it’s a little controversial.

Alisa Manjarrez: Yeah. I tell people not to cry. I tell clients not to cry all the time, because I think that yes, there is power in showing your emotions and being human. And I hope that we get to a place where it really is truly psychologically safe to cry. But I think about all of the ramifications of when I see… I remember working with a woman, she cried all the time and it was like, Oh my gosh, get yourself together.

Because the last time I cried at work, I was 19, at Banana Republic, and I was quitting my job because it was too stressful. I was like, I’m working at the newspaper at my school and I’m doing all these things that I can’t, you’re so bossy with the way you want us to separate our hangers. And I remember I was real… it was like a big deal in the moment. And that is the last time I cried at work. But I don’t know, like I love this story because Nasutsa was able to really make it work for her and turn it around and not in a manipulative type of way.

Rosa Santos: Yeah. Yeah, no, I know what you were saying. And I am also very realistic and, you know this, very pragmatic. And I do understand that even though I want to believe that most organizations are evolved. The truth is, I don’t think it’s happening at the pace that we three here we’d love them to be evolved. So the reality is that we still get dimmed as yeah, what you said, get yourself together, kind of, because I’ve never experienced a man crying in any setting at the workplace, right?

Alisa Manjarrez: And am I using bias against women by putting them down and judging them for crying? 

Rosa Santos: Yeah, exactly. 

Alisa Manjarrez: Like, and where did that bias come from? It didn’t come from other women.

Rosa Santos: When you said crying or the use of your emotions can be your power, I’m just wondering when, when does that become your power? When does showing up as your whole self, become your power? 

 Nasutsa Mabwa: Yeah, I think admitting that you’re not perfect, right? Humans aren’t perfect. And women, and in, in commercial work or our professional lives, we feel sometimes we have to be more to be successful. And that means a certain kind of image that we have to portray very tough, very serious, very focused.

I mean, we can have a sense of humor, but that emotional component can be seen as weakness. So we have to try to show others that it’s okay to be open with our emotions because it is a sign of strength. And I think if more people act that way, not hysterics in the workplace, but just emoting in a healthy manner, it shows a deep sense of, I think, power and strength, because you’re connected to who you are. And when you know who you are, you can then communicate and work with others better. 

Rosa Santos: Really, it’s a good way of assessing whether an organization is in the right path to show empathy and allow for emotions, especially in this day and age, where I think there is a real mental health crisis across the board.

And there’s a lot of people that are suffering. And especially when we look at our fellow women of color and multicultural women who are struggling, this is the real thing. It’s a real thing. And it’s an opportunity to look and put that lens through if you don’t feel that again, you can be humans, especially during this time.

If you’re not allowed to be human during this time, it’s probably a good moment to reconsider where you want to grow as a professional and as a human being, because that’s where we, that’s where we are. 

Alisa Manjarrez: In my personal life, I cry all the time. So you talk about compartmentalizing, like, uh, growing up, if my dad was mad at me or something, I would cry and I still cry. When I’m really angry, that’s also when I cry. There’s a delicate balance, right? There’s a balance of managing your emotions and being real and bringing your authentic self to work. I mean, I know that’s almost cliche now to say, but there is a lot of power in owning all the sides of you, all your emotions and making sure that they’re appropriate for the setting that you’re in.

Nasutsa Mabwa: Before that I never would have spoken up. I would just rant and rave and be upset, but I would never do anything about it. I would just take it, hope it would go away and move on to the next thing. And with time, realize, Oh, it’s not that big of a deal or somehow make the matter smaller than it was and never address it. And those things build up enough where you kind of can have a toxic work situation. Maybe you’re not even aware of it. Sometimes you’re very conscious of it. Sometimes you, maybe you’re not conscious of it. That’s not healthy. And I think a lot of people go through that.

And for women it’s really important to understand, are you comfortable where you’re working? Are you being listened to? And I didn’t really have the courage to do that until I was older, until my thirties, when I knew that I was valued, my work was important. I was necessary. I was a piece of the puzzle that was important to keep the work happening, and without me, it wouldn’t get done. And when I felt that confidence, I knew I could speak. And nobody wants to be uncomfortable, right? Who wants to be in an uncomfortable yoga pose or running 12 miles when you’re not ready or I’ve done all these things, all of these things we don’t like doing, right? And if you do anything enough, I think you do get comfortable. It just takes time and you have to keep at it.

Alisa Manjarrez: One of the phrases that Nasutsa gave us was called, flying in the fog. A mentor gave her this tool and said, All right, how can you be prepared for the unexpected? And she has it down. 

Nasutsa Mabwa: There are times when you just don’t know the outcome or you’re going to have to pivot or troubleshoot or put out a fire. I could go on with you ladies, the next three hours about different jobs that I’ve gone to for service master, where we’ve had to do that, it just happens.

So how can you address what comes up, the unexpected, because it will. How fast can you redirect calmly, without excessive emotion, anger, crying, tears, you know, it takes courage. You have to find your balance and then move through it. There is always a solution. Another really smart person taught me all this, There are no problems, only solutions. So when you feel like there’s no way out of it, there is, there’s always a way out of it. You just, maybe haven’t thought of it yet, or you don’t know what it is yet, but it’s there. So I’ve just learned to do that. And yeah, every week something will come sideways at you and it’s like, How are you going to get through this? Either you give up or you push through. For me, owning my own business, I got to push through. I don’t have the opportunity or the luxury of sitting around and hoping somebody else will do it. And then I’ll still be able to make a paycheck. I’ve got to solve the problem. We have to find a way through it. It’s a very different type of mindset, I think.

Alisa Manjarrez: Literally for disasters that come her way, she knows, Okay, you’re going to be displaced for three days. This is what’s going to happen. A, B, C, D. She brings order to the unexpected. And listening to her reminded me that all of us have learned to fly in the fog, especially this year during this pandemic. We don’t know what’s coming. We still don’t. We’re a year and a half into this almost, and we’re still not a hundred percent sure what’s going to happen.

If we had stayed in panic mode for a year and a half, that just wouldn’t serve us. And I think it comes back to what you were saying earlier, too, about being able to adapt and know what to do when you don’t know what’s ahead.

Nasutsa Mabwa: You’ve talked to the customer. You’ve had prep meetings with the team. And you’re at the job site and everything begins to feel like it’s falling off the tracks. It’s just, it’s not going smooth. Every little thing that could go wrong is, and then the whole day just begins to feel like it’s imploding. You know, how do you get that right back on track again? A lot of it lies with you, the leader, or whoever’s managing that project, because everybody looks to you for that leadership. So that’s the kind of flying in the fog that can happen. 

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Rosa Santos: I think we have already learned so much from our prior experiences and our own resiliency and our own determination to overcome whatever comes our way, that we already have a lot, in those toolboxes that we have that I think it’s a way of looking at it and applying it differently.

How can you reframe and how can you then, look for the possibility and being optimistic about what’s to come?

Nasutsa Mabwa: I’ve learned over time that there’s a lot of gray space. We don’t know. And so a lot of what we do is learning to fly in the fog.

Alisa Manjarrez: For more inspiring stories, please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you have a guest you’d love to hear on the show, send us a DM on Instagram at @colorforwardpod.

I’m Alisa Manjarrez, producer of Color Forward. Thanks for joining us and, please, leave us a review.

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