38. Perla Tamez, Serial Entrepreneur, on Grabbing Fear by the Horns

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Episode Transcript

[cue intro theme music]

Alisa Manjarrez: When you’re starting something new, making a significant change in your life, whether it’s a new job, starting your own business, or just standing up for yourself, public speaking, you’re bound to be afraid. And I read a study recently by Shelley Taylor, she’s a psychologist from UCLA, and she says that there’s a misconception around the fight or flight response when it comes to fear or stress. And she says that this can be something that men or women do, but there’s a tendency for women to do this thing that she calls tending and befriending. 

What they do is seek out positive relationships with others, and that is what helps the fear go away. Have you guys ever heard of that, tend and befriend? 

Rosa Santos: I have not. I have not. I’m quite curious actually, now.

Alisa Manjarrez: It’s a 45 page study that I can send you. 

Merary Simeon: I don’t know. Do they have an executive summary?

Alisa Manjarrez: I did read the abstract. I did read the abstract. 

I started thinking about what do I do when I’m afraid? Do I freeze? Do I fly? Do I fight or do I go phone a friend? I’m such a verbal processor that I definitely do the tend and befriend. I don’t do it though, to be warm and fuzzy, or at least not that I know of. I’m not looking for affirmation. I just need to talk it through. For me, reaching out to a friend is more like, let me just process this. 

What do you guys do?

Rosa Santos: I back off.

Alisa Manjarrez: You fly away?

Rosa Santos: I do. I do. I, honestly, instinctively, that’s how I think how I do it. Now, I have learned over the years to hold it. Think through it and go for it. So it’s been a purposeful and intentional way of managing challenging situations that give you this sense of like fear or not wanting to address whatever is in front of you.

But initially my initial tendency is definitely, Oh, I don’t want anything to do with it. And I do notice that and then I go for it. 

Alisa Manjarrez: So you catch yourself?

Rosa Santos: I do. I do. I sometimes use it as a technique as well. Because then that gives me time to really think about how I’m going to go for it.

Merary Simeon: Yeah. Like for me, I start thinking about if I submit to the fear, what are the consequences? Because a lot of the times I find that when I’m fearful about something, and I do freeze, then I’m like, Hey, what am I losing out on? I’m also finding that I also have to think about that when I am submitting to fear and just fighting.

So I’m learning to identify what the fear is and figure out how to go after it, because I don’t think that fighting right away is the right thing without having thought through it first, what the right response should be. Does that make sense? So it may not be that I’m fighting right away or it may not be that I am not going to fight. It may be that I got to figure out what is the right way to go about that fear. 

Rosa Santos: I think for me, what works is reframing. That definitely helps. I tell you rollercoasters, heights, no, thank you very much. I am not going to address those. I am not kidding. So it’s then again, it is what the issue, what’s bringing you that fear, and especially within a context of a workplace, or a new project, or confronting somebody who’s bullying you or who’s making your life miserable. You need to know your fear, and then try to work it out. Because then you are preparing a little bit, but you are bringing those distinctions around, What is my fear? What does it stem from and what can I do about it?   

Merary Simeon: I guess my automatic response is to fight, which is not always the right one. And I think that’s why I had to think of a strategy to get a better outcome. But I think about roller coasters and all those things you mentioned, I won’t do those because I know that I’m fearful of them, but to overcome them, I went and I jumped off a plane three times to do that. So it’s like, screw this fear. I’m going to overcome you. So I’m just going to go do the craziest thing there is, right? And I still won’t go on a roller coaster, but I’m okay now jumping off planes. 

Alisa Manjarrez: You’re like, I’ve jumped off a plane, I’m good. 

Merary Simeon: Yeah, exactly. 

Alisa Manjarrez: The thrill has been achieved.

Rosa Santos: No, thanks.

[cue music]

Alisa Manjarrez: If there is one friend that I would love to reach out to the next time I’m afraid it’s our guest today.  

Perla Tamez: My name is Perla, and I consider myself a mom, a sister and a daughter. Then on top of that, I’m a serial entrepreneur and philanthropist at heart.

Alisa Manjarrez: I met her in October, and I’ve been following all of her social media accounts. And I am in awe of everything that she does. All that she’s accomplished. She became a millionaire by the age of 24 and she just gives back, gives back, gives back. So today she’s going to talk about how she grabs fear by the horns.

And one of the things that I love about her is that she says, if your vision is big enough, you look fear right in the eyes and you address it head on.

[music stops]

Perla Tamez: When I see fear, to me, it’s like reverse psychology. Like fear, Okay, let me go grab it by the horns. Look at it in the eyes. And I’m pushing forward because it’s like a bull, right? And you’re looking at it and you’re just gonna push forward. 

And so, for me, it’s like playing a game, you know, like wherever it’s difficult, that’s where you need to go in, you need to dig in, because that’s the gold. What is the gold? The success of your vision. What was in your mind that was going to be super, super successful? Money, it can be a reward. The gold is anything you destined for it to be.  

Alisa Manjarrez: Merary, we need to pause a little bit and celebrate you, because you just got your doctorate, Dr. Merary Simeon. Congratulations.

Merary Simeon: Thank you. Thank you. 

Rosa Santos: Go, Merary.

Merary Simeon: I still can’t believe it. That’s for sure.

Alisa Manjarrez: I want to acknowledge you for all the hard work you’ve done. but I’m curious, you know, this has been a huge vision for you, and I want to know if there are times where you felt fear, but your vision was stronger?

Merary Simeon:  I would say the biggest time where I faced fear and it paralyzed me was when I was writing the dissertation. I finished all of my classes in the summer, and I should have already been writing the dissertation. And several times I said, Yeah, I’m just not going to do this.

And I had to really sit down and understand what is wrong with me. Why would I get this far not finish? And I realized it was fear of failure, fear of not being smart enough, fear of this board saying, What the hell are you writing about? It was absolute fear. 

I felt with the classes I had control. I knew what I was submitting. I knew that I could pass. I knew what I was writing about, but knowing that I was going to be judged by people that didn’t know me, they were going to be reading my paper and I was going to be talking to them about it, I froze. For three months I didn’t do any writing.

And it wasn’t until a friend that was in the program that graduated that summer called to see how I was doing. And she was like, what are you doing? What are you afraid of? And it dawned on me, Wow, I’m making up every excuse in the book why not to finish this. And it was because I was afraid of being judged. This is why it’s so important to have a community of friends who knew what to say and how to support me. And it was because of that community of sisterhood, like I call it, that I was able to finish.  

Alisa Manjarrez: Yeah, Rosa got to live vicariously through all your research.

Merary Simeon: She loves this stuff.

Alisa Manjarrez: It was fun. I think that’s a good point. When we’re in need or when we’re doing a huge project, the last thing we want to do is ask for help. And I think sometimes we forget that it’s a joyful experience to give.

Rosa Santos: No, it’s true. It was so fun. And we’re so proud of you Merary. We are truly proud. So our congratulations and we share that joy with you. 

There’s something very important that you said, and I go back to identifying what is causing that fear so then you can overcome it. And there are various, multiple ways to be able to do that. As it happened, one of the most powerful ones that you reached out to was a friend who could bring you to the forefront and the reality and give you that push probably that you needed to realize, what is the worst that could happen, when you’re judged, in this case? That you will fail? Well, guess what, if you don’t submit the paper, you’re going to fail anyway, because you’re not going to complete. So it’s pretty powerful to be able to do that. And then pretty powerful that someone can actually help you realize what it is that you need to overcome.

Merary Simeon: You’re right. You can’t win a game that you don’t play, right? And every time we play a game, we play to win. What I actually love about this situation is, she reached out to me. And I think that is such a critical point, because sometimes we forget to check up on our friends that are going through some of these situations and she had just gotten her doctorate. And when she started talking to me, she said, this is how I felt A, B, C, D, you know, all these things. She felt fear. She felt she wasn’t enough. She felt like an imposter and she still made it. So it just helped so much. And we talk about it all the time on this podcast, but it is real. It comes back like those limiting beliefs, those fears want to come back.

And thankfully I was able to move forward, and I hope that’s what this podcast does, right? Every time those things creep in, we are able to remember, Wait a minute, I know Alisa, I know Rosa, they’ve experienced the same thing and they’ve been able to get through it.

 Alisa Manjarrez: Yeah, I think there’s a common misconception that fear’s a sign of weakness. But it’s reality, it’s real life and it is something that you can walk through, live through and overcome. 

I want our listeners to hear a story that Perla shares with us. She is really passionate about taking care of others. But when we asked her one of her biggest fear moments, she talked about this decision that she made in her life to advocate for children in Texas. 

 Perla Tamez: We were making numbers, you know, on what this impact was going to cost our company. I said, this would put us out of business. What are our options? And he goes, well, the only thing you can do is do a class action lawsuit against the state of Texas. And I said, okay, get the attorneys. We’re going to do that. So wait a minute, Perla, like, How? How are we going to do it? And I said, I’m either going to lose or I’m going to try to win. And then I still might lose. So let’s go full blown. He was like, but are you serious? And I said, let’s move forward. So we called the attorneys and they were like, Wow, Perla, that really takes some balls. Are you sure you want to do that? And I said, yeah, that’s what I want to do because I want to fight for the rights of children.

It’s not fair what the state is doing, and they need to understand that they’re going to prohibit the access to care. Children are not going to have therapy. It’s going to reflect eventually when they’re in second, third, fourth, fifth grade, then these kids are going to get bullied. And then they’re going to go to school. They’re going to fall into depression. And then when they’re in depression, they’re looking for an escape. They find the wrong team of people, the bad girls, the bad boys. And then they really do bad things. And then that’s where we start losing our teenagers, you know, to drugs, alcohol abuse, you name it. I said, so I’ve got no choice, but to fight.

We sued the state of Texas, our attorney said, you’re going to be the first one that is going to get blackballed. You’re going to get audited. They’re going to blast you. I said, no problem. I have nothing to hide. That two years and a half, my company got audited 14 times. My employees and I still remember the Medicaid fraud unit of the FBI came in and questioned us, harassed us and tormented us. It was terrible. And I lost a child. I was five months pregnant. The stress was too much, and I had a field demise. If I would’ve given up there wouldn’t be therapy for kids right now. And right now in South Texas, we remain the largest therapy providers in the area. We continue to service kids, and were still in the game.

Alisa Manjarrez: Something like suing the largest state in the United States is not common. And Perla talks about how everyone is afraid to do it, and she did. But the goal was so much bigger than her, that when fear creeped in, she was able to just address it.  

When you are in the midst of facing your fears, how do you stay focused?  

Rosa Santos: For me, the reframing of your fear is a little bit about using your brain in a different way to look at the issue through a different glass. There really is something about, how we process it and what it does to our chemical balance and imbalance, right? That then, all these emotions will creep up and will make you do what you said in terms of fight, flight or freeze. And I think that reframing helps calm yourself down. And that is true, not just in the moment, because I think what I am referring to, there’s a lot of it in the moment, but I think even if you’ve made the decision to go forward, like Perla did, with such enterprise of suing the state of Texas. I bet the way that she addressed it for herself was just compartmentalizing the whole process so she could get to the end. 

It’s important to have that beacon of light, of what it is that you’re trying to achieve and then break it down. So instead of this mountain that you need to climb, right, that you then think of like the different stages in which you’re going to rest in order to go to the next one. And the next one. So you will finally reach the top.

Merary Simeon: I love that, because it will allow you to shine that light on some of the darkest things that need change. And you may be that person to do it, just like Perla did. 

Rosa Santos: Every small win has to be celebrated. And has to help you to really boost yourself up to go to the next stage of that mountain. You need that boost of confidence to be able to do that. We talk a lot about taking risk and failure and all of that and how we learn from failure, et cetera.

But it’s true. It is true that failure sucks, right? Failure is like, you put so much energy to do something and all of a sudden you fall over, and just getting up and try again and try again. It’s exhausting. We just need to recognize that it’s exhausting. So every small step that you win, you go celebrate. Take it in. You did it. And if you did this one, then you can do the next one. 

Merary Simeon: I love that. It’s almost like getting to the championship. You’ve got to win one game at a time. You can’t be thinking of the end. And when I think even about my doctorate, it was okay, finish one class. Yes. Got to go to the next one. I can’t even imagine looking at the whole picture. It is definitely frightening. So I really love that mindset. 

Alisa Manjarrez: How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. That’s what my mom always says.

Rosa Santos: Unless you’re a vegetarian.

Alisa Manjarrez: This show does not advocate eating elephants.

Merary Simeon: There you go. That’s right. We got to find one for the vegetarians.

Alisa Manjarrez: Perla tells us her secret to getting through fear by grabbing it by the horn. She says, surprise, surprise, it’s all about breaking the rules. 

[cue classical music]

Perla Tamez:  The proper behavior of a perfect lady. You have to keep your thoughts to yourself. You have to always respect, and if a man says you can’t, well, then you can’t. You know, I’ve been breaking that rule since I was born.  

[music transitions to hard rock guitar]

Break the female etiquette, be a woman. Use your charm, but think like a man. I say and I do what I gotta do when I got to do it. And if I believe in it and if I can prove it, I’m there, man.  That’s the way I work. I will abide by the rules and I will play it up until right before something is going to be legally broken. You have to just be yourself and you can’t hold back. 

Even to this day, you know, we, women suffer inequality, pay differences, diversity and inclusion is a huge topic. Women are still not getting to the VP, president positions, chairs, boards, et cetera, in businesses, companies, corporations across the United States, because of that morally social etiquette.  

[music stops]

Merary Simeon: Not everybody’s ready. I mean, I always say you can’t be your whole self in every place. 

Alisa Manjarrez: At all times. 

Merary Simeon: No, you gotta be strategic about it. You gotta know your audience. Especially if there is something at stake. 

A lot of people know me, Merary’s always happy, laughing and always positive. But the minute I’m talking to you about something serious and start hitting you with facts. You’re like, Oh, that’s not Merary. She can’t handle this. Or she may not be thinking about this correctly. Like it’s automatically negative because people are always thinking she’s positive. No, but when I’m passionate about something, about the truth and about facts, I’m going to bring it to you.

People can’t handle that. People love the Latina, happy, always smiling. They never met a Latina that wasn’t happy. And when you start coming with the facts now, Oh, she’s aggressive. So it’s real. Not everybody’s ready for it.

Rosa Santos: We did talk a little bit about this in the past episode. I actually do agree with the fact that not everyone is ready for you. And sometimes, you know, we might be led to believe that it’s okay to bring your emotions and it’s okay to be yourself, but I think it’s about how strategic and what is at stake, as Merary says. What is at stake and really do you feel  that can sincerely be the case? And also, we’re all different. I’m not sure to what extent I want to bring my whole self to work or to a given situation. 

That doesn’t mean that I am not myself. I’m just being myself and I’m utilizing a different kind of vehicle to be the most powerful and impactful that I can be. I want everyone to be very intentional about it. It’s not about being somebody that you’re not. It’s about being smart in the way that you want to show up so you are the most impactful in whatever you are trying to do or achieve, and that will be you. In whatever way or form, that will be you.

Merary Simeon: You have to be flexible with your audience.

Rosa Santos: Exactly. And the context, your audience, who you’re talking to and what the ultimate goal is here.

Alisa Manjarrez: And Perla says, it’s a man’s world. And as much as we are fighting against that or trying to overcome whatever we’re trying to do, it still is the truth. And sometimes it’s hard to face the truth. But she’s like, look, I’m not happy about it, but I’m going to use it to my advantage.

Perla Tamez: You know how men are like emotionless? Women need to be less emotional.  So you use your charm, you use your beauty, put on the red lipstick, beautify yourself, but then drop the emotions, because whenever you use it was the emotions and you’re trying to cut a deal, like in a business deal, that men are going to be like, [speaking Spanish] like, I can’t take it, too much emotion.

And that’s why they tell us to go away, because they don’t want that drama. So act like a woman, think like a man and push forward.  

Rosa Santos: What I would say is that we also don’t have to be the ones all the time who bring people to task, right? We can do things, but we are not the ones who are going to resolve every single issue that there is. And this is still very much a man dominated and led world, and, to Perla’s point, that is a fact, and that is not changing anytime soon. We’re making strides, but again, just be intentional, be strategic and take into consideration what’s at stake.

Alisa Manjarrez: There’s this video on TikTOK and Instagram, and it was this woman writing an email to her boss with all these exclamation marks, and then she goes back and edits herself and removes the exclamation marks and says, it’s a man’s world, we need to act the part and fit what society is telling us to do if we want to succeed. 

And all of these people were responding, saying yes, absolutely. This is just part of life. And literally I was scrolling through my feed and a minute later I see another video, same concept, but it saying, have all the exclamation marks. If you really want to be a woman, like don’t be ashamed. Wear your pink fuzzy slippers. Everyone commenting on that one was like, yeah, we shouldn’t have to edit ourselves just to email somebody.

So I asked Perla about it, because it had just come out when we talked to her and she was like, No, it has nothing to do with being a feminist or not. And she actually tells us… 

Perla Tamez: Be a jello. You don’t wear heels and then you want to wear heels. What do you do? You adapt, right? And we have to understand that we are coming into a man’s world and you have to deal with the men.

So be yourself, don’t lose your essence, delete the exclamation points. Drop the drama. And once you’re in there and you’re settled and that’s your saddle, then put all the exclamation points you have and do what you gotta do. 

Rosa Santos: You know how we have this slogan even today about “empower her” the other side of the coin that she said was, well, this is already assuming that we’re not capable, and that we need to be given permission to be empowered and take charge. I thought that was so insightful, because I think we’ve been fed a lot of things to believe that we still need to be given permission to do what we think it’s the right thing to do for ourselves.

And to that point, we do have agency. No one has to give it to us. All of a sudden now, when I see that, when I see the “empower her” or “empower me” it’s like, no, thank you. I’m okay. 

Alisa Manjarrez: I don’t need empowering. Thank you very much. 

Rosa Santos: I don’t need empowering. It’s like, no, I need this support. I need the partnership and I need you to sponsor me. I need you to call on others who say those kinds of things. That’s what I need. I don’t need empowerment. 

[cue music]

Merary Simeon: Here’s what I would say, I agree with you. I don’t need permission to do what I do. I’m going to kick butt and do everything that I need to do to keep climbing the ladder and achieve. But if people would get out of my way, that right there is empowering, because right now I feel society gets in the way, policies get in the way, all these things get in the way of us being successful.

And I believe, as women, we’ve come a long way. Imagine if we didn’t have those barriers. I can’t even tell you how much more amazing things women would be doing. So when I look at empower, I look at it from the perspective, if you just move out of the way, instead of trying to bring me down and oppress me, I would be able to accomplish that much more. 

Alisa Manjarrez: Merary, maybe you’ve changed my mind, because I’ve been very anti-empower. I have a client who helps women, and when she first came out with one of her slogans, it was like all about empowering women. And I told her everything that Rosa said, and she stopped using that word. And then when I was doing my coaching website I chose “equip”. I’m equipping women with the tools that they need. But I didn’t think about the idea of reclaiming your power. Like giving her the space to reclaim it.

Rosa Santos: See, that, I love. That is redefining what empowerment is. Which is very different from the way that then many men actually use empowerment. Especially for women of color and multicultural women. 

Merary Simeon: Maybe that’s the name of our new podcast? Redefining your power. No, I’m just kidding. That’s too many words, 

Alisa Manjarrez: Empower, the good way.

[music stops]

Rosa Santos: I also saw an old Ted talk from Viola Davis that also was saying like, I’ve got an Oscar, I’ve got an Emmy, I’ve got all these Tonys. I’ve done many feature film series as Meryl Streep, Sigourney Weaver, all these other women, and yet nobody knows who I am. Nobody’s calling me to do anything. Like in that sense, because people know who those celebrities are, and it was pretty powerful to see it, because all her credentials were the same or even better. And yet the only thing that was different is the color of skin. And I think we still have a lot of that going on across the board.

Merary Simeon: What would have been empowering for them is to start calling her, because she is capable, but no, instead they’re just… 

Alisa Manjarrez: Over looking.  

Merary Simeon: Yes. Not unconsciously, purposefully. And that’s how they try to strip your power away.

Rosa Santos: Yeah, at the same time you’re visible, but then you’re invisible.

Merary Simeon: Well, that’s the concrete ceiling that people talk about. The glass ceiling, I can see you. The concrete ceiling is like, I don’t even see you.

Alisa Manjarrez: I’ve never heard that, concrete ceiling. It makes me mad thinking about it.

Merary Simeon: You should, I’m mad just talking about it.

[cue outro theme music] 

Perla Tamez: Every fear I have, I embrace it. Come to the table, let’s chop it up. I’m going to work a plan for that fear and then you move forward.  

We were just brought up to be like, afraid. You have to be afraid of passing away and then you’re not even going to be fearful because you can’t think. That’s a real fear, but [speaking Spanish]. No, be fearful, but use that reverse psychology.

Alisa Manjarrez: For more inspiring stories please subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you have a guest you’d love to hear on the show send us a DM on Instagram at colorforwardpod. I’m Alisa Manjarrez, producer of Color Forward. Thanks for joining us, and please leave us a review.

Perla Tamez: We like our jello delicious and colorful, you know, like you can be any kind of jello you want.