57. The Messy Middle, Part 2

Episode Transcript

Alisa Manjarrez: (00:00)
When you’re in the middle of trying to decide if you should stay at your job, go, be an entrepreneur, it is hard. And there are all these layers and things that come into play with making those decisions. And when we talked to Rose Aviles a couple months ago, she was right in that position. Today we are releasing an episode where we get a follow-up of what happened, where she’s at, where she’s going. You’re not going to want to miss it. Take a listen. How is pregnant life?

Rose Aviles: (00:34)
Pregnant life is interesting, especially I think during the pandemic. The holidays are coming up and it’s like, “Okay, I’m vaccinated. But do I go to a family function still with these little kids that might not be vaccinated? And what does that mean?” Because the thing is, you always go to bed feeling paranoid. It’s like, “Oh, I was around a child today, and that child coughed. Do I have COVID?” And I look at my fiance, I’m like, “Am I okay? Do I look different?”

Alisa Manjarrez: (01:11)
Oh, man. It’s a hard time. This episode is going to come out after the holidays, but it’s kind of like I just can’t believe we’re still having these conversation. Because we document our conversations and we have been during the pandemic, it’s like, “Really? Are we seriously still going to be talking about this in 2022?” And we are.

Rose Aviles: (01:35)
We are, and it’s going to be more than just a discussion. I think unfortunately, it’s going to be a little bit like that fear mongering again, what we experienced in the way beginning, which is … That sucks. Bringing a child into a world like that, that’s like, “Ugh.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (01:54)
How far along are you now?

Rose Aviles: (01:56)
Seven months.

Alisa Manjarrez: (01:58)
Okay, how exciting. You’re almost there.

Rose Aviles: (02:03)
I’m ready though. If she wants to come out tomorrow, I’m okay with that.

Alisa Manjarrez: (02:06)
You’re like, “Let’s do this.”

Rose Aviles: (02:10)
I am. Goodness. And what about you? You have good weather over there, good holiday season?

Alisa Manjarrez: (02:17)
Yeah. I have nothing interesting to share. I say let’s jump into this conversation because I think it’s going to be super powerful. One of our six principles or guiding principles throughout this What Rules!? Podcast has been own your power. And it’s become really important for me personally to remind myself that I have power, first of all, and then to go to that next step and own it. What does that actually look like? And what I love about this journey coming back to you and your story is, in episode 54, so everyone who’s listening, this is a part two episode with Rose Aviles. And in the first episode, you talked about some times where you didn’t own it, and then when you did, and then it was like, “Whoa, you’re so powerful.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (03:19)
And now here we are, still continuing on the journey. And we get to hear where you’re at now, how you’re owning it now, all your aha moments. But before we get into that, why don’t you introduce yourself to our new listeners?

Rose Aviles: (03:35)
I am Rose Aviles, and I am a Hispanic, I’m a Latina, I’m a Puerto Rican, I’m New York-rican, I guess I’m a California-rican too. However, I work for the community. I love what I do. I work in community services for a multi branch library system in Westchester County. It’s in the city of Yonkers, and we have a very big population of which we have a very large vulnerable population as well. And what I do I think is essential to making the library a community centric hub, so to speak, a space where people can come, look for resources, get free programming, and then figure out, continue to figure out what the community needs are to serve that.

Rose Aviles: (04:29)
And I think that’s the most rewarding thing about what I do. And other than that, I teach as an adjunct professor at LIU, and that’s also rewarding, teaching students, especially when they want to learn, which sometimes they don’t. That’s just the reality. But yes, I’m excited to be here today and to talk more about what rules and what rules I’ve broken recently that are still terrifying, but about empowering.

Alisa Manjarrez: (05:10)
Well, let me introduce myself. My name is Alisa Manjarrez. I’m a vision producer, an executive coach at The Happy Cactus. And I am doing this episode without my co-hosts, Rosa and Merary, today. But I think it’ll be pretty cool to put my coach hat back on with you today, Rose, as we figure out. We’ll do a little bit of a recap of where you’ve been since we last talked. And who knows what future is in store for you? And I think the most important thing I would like our listeners to hear and understand today is that we all go through ups and downs and ebbs and flows in life, and on some days, there are things that are crystal clear to you. And some days, it changes. And it is completely okay to change course without hesitation.

Alisa Manjarrez: (06:08)
If you get new information, and it doesn’t really matter who you talk to, what podcast you’re on, a part of owning your power is also owning your choices and deciding what’s best for you. So I would really like everyone listening today to think through what that looks like for you as we hear Rose’s story.

Rose Aviles: (06:28)
Alisa, now I’m thinking about my own. I know I have one already and set, and I’m like, “But what about … What do I want to do, 2022?”

Alisa Manjarrez: (06:39)
Yeah. It’s so hard sometimes to be an adult.

Rose Aviles: (06:45)
It is.

Alisa Manjarrez: (06:46)
Man, there’s so many pressures and decisions and things. Okay. So for those listeners who haven’t heard episode 54 in a while, at the very, very end of the episode, Rose, and I don’t know if you remember this, you said, “And I’m quitting.”

Rose Aviles: (07:05)
Oh, no. Did I?

Alisa Manjarrez: (07:07)
You did.

Rose Aviles: (07:07)
Okay, that was the anticipated close. That’s what I thought it was going to end up being naturally because that’s the direction that it felt like it was going on. But after that episode, I felt so empowered by even speaking the truth, by being with two other powerful leaders, Latina leaders, who’ve been there, done that, and just having that in itself, and then taking myself back and saying, “Okay, so I do love what I do. I do love the position. If there’s a way to work it out, then it’ll work itself out.” And apparently, that’s exactly what happened. I still work for the library system and I’m still community services. And I still get to work remotely. And the truth is, my job makes sense remotely because a lot of what I do is multiple different hats in the community. It’s not just serving the community members, but the partners of the community, other organizations.

Alisa Manjarrez: (08:18)
It’s interesting to hear you today versus not that long ago because before, it was like, “They’re not treating me the way I need to be treated. I’m a high risk pregnancy. I have all these concerns. They’re not respecting me. They’re manipulating me,” all this kind of stuff. But now what I’m hearing you say is that you feel like you have a role to play in society, and this job enables you to fulfill that role. And so I would like to know what of all those other kind of yucky circumstances. What changed? Did they change? Did you change? What happened?

Rose Aviles: (09:04)
None of that changed. Everything you said is true.

Alisa Manjarrez: (09:06)
Okay.

Rose Aviles: (09:07)
I’ve always felt I have a role to play and I want to fulfill that role. More than being a necessity, it’s wanting to also fulfill that role. When you say they mistreated me, that’s what’s technically not correct. So they is technically one or two people. Right? And we talked about this transition in the organization, having a new director, and then months later, having a new deputy director. The deputy director is, I want to say, a lot more in tune empathetically, compassionately, is a different leadership style, a different kind of management style than the new director. And I think that a lot of the disconnect with my position was when the new director came in.

Rose Aviles: (10:07)
And it was just such a difference from the director prior to, when I originally started working there, and change is good when it makes sense, when it feels good. But there was a real disconnect component to my position and the new director, whereas now, he’s no longer my boss, by the way. Since the new director came in, she’s my new boss.

Alisa Manjarrez: (10:38)
Okay. So there’s another level between you and the new director.

Rose Aviles: (10:42)
Yes, a very thick level, let’s say, thick to the point where I barely even have to interact.

Alisa Manjarrez: (10:52)
Well, that’s a game changer.

Rose Aviles: (10:54)
It says a lot about the rules in general. When I think about what rules in this situation, it’s that connection. I think change management is important. No, absolutely is important. And working for an organization you feel good in is crucial to your happiness in the role, your success in the role, going the extra mile. So she kind of came in and saved the day. She was like the super hero. And I think she sensed it immediately.

Alisa Manjarrez: (11:38)
How do you know she sensed it? Because you’ve been super sensitive, right? And I say that in more of a hyper aware than super sensitive, not like someone’s going to hurt my feelings, but hyper aware to protect yourself, or your livelihood, your health, all of that. And what was it about her that helped you to see that you were seen and heard and understood?

Rose Aviles: (12:04)
She has communicated directly about noticing some organizational behaviors that concern her. I talk a lot about diversity, equity, inclusion with her because she came in, and we now have a subcommittee of what diversity, equity, inclusion means in the workplace, number one, and how we bring that to the table with when we’re serving our residents, that’s number two. And for her to even put that on the table for us, for an organization, it makes an impact. It makes you take a step back and say, “Oh, wait a minute. They care about us as individuals working in this workplace, about how we feel, what matters most to us, not just as a collective unit, but as individuals respecting one another.”

Rose Aviles: (13:10)
So ironically, at one of these diversity, equity, inclusion meetings, they talked about … What’s that term when someone says something? It’s like a microaggression. And you know it’s a microaggression, but it doesn’t hit you until you’re taking a shower later.

Alisa Manjarrez: (13:27)
Yeah. They’re like, “Oh, wow, you’re pretty,” things like that. And I’m like, “Well.”

Rose Aviles: (13:36)
Or someone says, for example, “I worked my entire pregnancy.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (13:41)
Yeah.

Rose Aviles: (13:41)
Oh, yeah. I’m working, just because you don’t see me sitting at my desk doesn’t mean anything about not working. But a micro aggression to a point where it makes you question your sanity, or your decision making. And her noticing those things in our work environment has really I think changed and impacted a lot of our employees. So it’s not just a me thing. I think it’s a bunch of us.

Alisa Manjarrez: (14:16)
Well, let’s take it back to you. And I would love to know what you’re learning now, what you’re processing during all … Because this is a big moment of your life. You’re in a really significant chapter of your life, embarking on having a child, and so everything right now is really important to you for your future. It’s different than probably it would’ve been a year ago, where you’re just worried about yourself and comfort, and dealing with rude people. Now it’s like this is … I have some other things to consider. So what has that taught you about yourself? Because I actually think that everyone can learn from lessons from people who are in positions like you because it shouldn’t have to take being pregnant to stand up for yourself, for example. But I’m curious to know what has stood out for you.

Rose Aviles: (15:19)
That’s a really great question, Alisa, and it’s actually very hard to answer because it seems to change very frequently, almost from day to day. But the circumstances have changed, yes. Being pregnant makes a difference. Bringing a girl into the world also makes a huge difference.

Alisa Manjarrez: (15:44)
You said earlier, “I got my power back.”

Rose Aviles: (15:47)
I absolutely got my power back in the sense that having that meeting and being able to say, “I’m sorry. I can’t come in because I am high risk pregnancy, and this is just my health condition. It’s temporary until I give birth,” and them saying, “Okay. If this is your health condition and you cannot come into the office, and you’re safer working from home, and it works, then we’ll just wait until after you give birth.”

Rose Aviles: (16:21)
Now that doesn’t change that element though with how I felt prior to, or all the struggles, like you said, that I had to go through now that I’m pregnant and I take that power back. Taking that power and saying, “Okay, now I can work from home and feel comfortable, at least until I give birth.” I still feel a sense of anxiety because I’m going to give birth, and the next step is going to be going back into the office full-time with my office is literally parallel to the director’s. And that in itself gives me this anxiety where I’m like, “I’m not so sure that I can go back to that,” not just after exploring and understanding that my position can be fully remote, but sometimes when you know you don’t feel good in a place, that’s not going to change. And you know it’s not you because you’ve tried many different strategies. Sometimes it just doesn’t work. And so there is still the potential that I don’t go back.

Alisa Manjarrez: (17:47)
I read recently that the average woman stays in her job two years longer than she needs to. And it’s usually because of a sense of responsibility for the role. And in your case, you have almost like a public service role, and it’s more than just you that’s affected if you leave. That’s your community. And who do I serve? And what’s my priority?

Rose Aviles: (18:18)
And then I’m a woman, I’m innately guilty. Right? I was born feeling this sense of guilt in life. It’s scientifically proven. So absolutely, I do feel an obligation to the community and to the organizations that I’ve built partnerships with, that look for me day after day to help them with this matter, or anything, it can be anything. And I think about that a lot, Alisa. And it does tie me down. It makes me feel like, oh, man, there has to be someone that can take this role on and still make them feel like they’re being served in a manner that is what they were getting before, which is going to be hard to do, but it’s not my responsibility. That’s a rule that definitely has to be broken because: If I stay in that, then what is that going to do to my spirit, to my being?

Alisa Manjarrez: (19:24)
Especially if you’re trying to serve others and you have an anvil on top of you while you’re trying to give back.

Rose Aviles: (19:32)
That’s not going to work. Right?

Alisa Manjarrez: (19:34)
I look at you and see that no matter what role you’re going to have, you’re going to be in a place of service, whether that’s an internal team, external organizations, the community at large. That’s just who you are. Part of owning your power I think is owning that choice to serve in a place that makes sense for you. And I don’t know, I hesitate saying it because it sounds kind of idealistic, like I could hear this other voice in me is like, “But you don’t know. There’s nothing else. There’s nothing else out there.” But I think that’s coming from a place of scarcity.

Rose Aviles: (20:17)
Absolutely.

Alisa Manjarrez: (20:18)
I don’t know. What do you think about all that?

Rose Aviles: (20:20)
I think you’re right. I think you hit the nail right on the head. It’s like having that good angel and that bad angel, one telling you this, and the other telling you something else. What is the authentic me? And I have to lay with that, regardless of what happens, and the position and role that I take, that’s what I’m going to have to live with day to day. So I make the choice about my overall wellbeing. One thing that is true today I think for a lot of us is COVID made us really take a few steps back to say to ourselves, “Is this what I really want?” Because it doesn’t really feel like I’m in the right place. Or maybe you’re in the best place of your life, and COVID made you realize that. That’s great too.

Alisa Manjarrez: (21:07)
Well, literally 50% of the country quit their jobs, so I don’t think you’re alone.

Rose Aviles: (21:16)
Right? I’m like, “Yes, good for you.” Every time I see a tweet, it’s like this government position, I quit today, I’m out of here, they didn’t accept this. I’m like, “You go, girl.” It’s empowering. You know?

Alisa Manjarrez: (21:29)
Yeah.

Rose Aviles: (21:29)
But at the same time, it is scary. What’s next? But I think when you’re true to yourself, the cards fall into place the way that they’re supposed to.

Alisa Manjarrez: (21:42)
I lived in a lot of uncertainty throughout this whole pandemic. Right before the end of 2019, I got let go, shockingly let go from my position. We had a complete reorg, someone else bought the company. It’s a totally different place now. But I was an entrepreneur for most of this pandemic. It was really hard, and parts of it, I hated so much. But there are also parts of me that I, first of all, I had two months of detox from corporate world. There was all that I had to get rid of. But it was, aside from being hard, I learned so much about myself, my skills, my strengths, doing what I loved. And now almost two years later, I’ve had different opportunities just kind of come to me. And I would’ve never guessed. I’m so happy. I’m elated right now. But there were so many dark moments on the journey, and my journey was only two years. I know other people live in those journeys for a lot longer. And so there is sacrifice. Owning your power is not always fun.

Rose Aviles: (23:03)
So do you think because, when you think back, oh, if I had not actually been let off, would these opportunities have actually arisen?

Alisa Manjarrez: (23:14)
Honestly, I stayed in that job a good one year too long because for a whole year, I was super bored. And I didn’t know where to go, or what type of work I wanted to do. Nothing really seemed like a good … Nothing was out there that was like, “Oh, this is worth if for me,” so I just stayed. And even my CMO, who was letting me go, she was like, “I know this sucks, but I think this is a blessing in disguise.” I don’t think … I know, because I was really honest with her throughout about my hopes and dreams and all that, she was like, “I know this isn’t what you want to do,” so she said, “You’re working on influencer plans for executives. I think this is your time to become an influencer yourself.”

Rose Aviles: (24:06)
Wow.

Alisa Manjarrez: (24:06)
And I was like, “I hate you,” in the moment. I was like, “I’m sure I’m going to be appreciative later. But today, no, I’m not happy. I’m not prepared. I have no savings. What am I going to do?”

Rose Aviles: (24:22)
Wow. I completely dig that. I resonate with that. One time working for New York State Assembly, I got bored, and I ended up quitting under circumstances, leaving, like a resignation kind of. It was a mutual leaving. And I remember I got my master’s degree. I couldn’t find a job. And there was all this discouragement. You know those letters that come after you apply for job, after job, after job. And then you get the letter that says, “Your application was great. However, X, Y, and Z, we chose someone else out of the pool because their qualifications happen to meet.” It should just, one, don’t send the letter. Just never write me. But it should say, “Rejected,” on the subject line.

Alisa Manjarrez: (25:12)
Yeah, a stamp. Give me a heads up here.

Rose Aviles: (25:17)
But I remember two years later trying to go back to New York State Assembly, and I think that it is a blessing in disguise, what you experience, because I remember my boss saying to me, my former boss, saying, “You graduated from here. You were bored even when you left, so when you come back, it’s just going to be the same thing. You graduated. The most important words that came were, “You graduated from here.” And I was just like you, “I hate you. Give me the job. I’m broke.” But future tense, I think we can both appreciate it.

Alisa Manjarrez: (25:56)
Yeah. In some ways, I have a total entrepreneur spirit, but I was not prepared when COVID hit. I did so much free work. And I was on a high because I was helping people, and it was so wonderful. And then my checking account just got lower and lower, and I was like, “Oh, I guess I better have a business here.” And that took a little while, and then I finally started getting my stride. And then things just fell into place. But it’s a journey.

Rose Aviles: (26:29)
It’s what you just said, they fall into place. You were doing what you love, most importantly. And I think about that every single day, and that’s what breaks my heart about leaving this position, is I didn’t just fall in love with the position, I fell in love with my community, the community that was built on this foundation of me being in that position. And when I think about it, I’m just like, “Well, you’ll always be my friends.” Right?

Alisa Manjarrez: (27:02)
Yeah.

Rose Aviles: (27:02)
You could always call me. But at the same time, it’s different. And that’s where the rule breaking comes in and is most key. If I stay in that, if we stay in that, then those opportunities, those great other opportunities that we didn’t even know exist, we’ll never have a chance at it.

Alisa Manjarrez: (27:25)
It’s a good thing this isn’t a dating show because I’m a lot of examples of staying with the wrong people for too long.

Rose Aviles: (27:36)
Wait, we can make it a dating show. You want to let us know?

Alisa Manjarrez: (27:40)
But there’s this sense of responsibility that you feel because of, well, in a dating, for me in a relationship, you’re like, “Well, it’s not bad.” But it could be good, and you don’t realize it until you’re out. And then you’re like, “Whoa, the sky is blue. The grass is green. There’s this whole other world. It’s not all grays and blacks and whites anymore.”

Rose Aviles: (28:04)
That’s a great analogy because what you just said is almost to the point of what you stay in for a job. Right? So I think about all the things that are positive. Oh, he’s handy, but you’re not really that attracted to him. It’s the same thing with a job.

Alisa Manjarrez: (28:30)
In my case, I was like, the last relationship, I was like, “Is he cute enough?” I mean, maybe.

Rose Aviles: (28:39)
You’re looking for the cuteness like, “Let me see your eyes again.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (28:42)
Yeah. There’s got to be a feature I can like.

Rose Aviles: (28:48)
Same thing with careers, choosing the right careers. That’s perfect, perfect analogy, is staying in a relationship that you know just you feel something, you don’t know what it is. But every time he walks through the door, you’re like, “Hm. I don’t know. I don’t know.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (29:09)
And in my case, for a long time.

Rose Aviles: (29:13)
Oh, God. I’m glad you’re out of that.

Alisa Manjarrez: (29:15)
Yeah. Me too.

Rose Aviles: (29:15)
You hear that? You hear that, guys? She’s bushy eyed. And what’s the saying? She’s beautiful today, beautified. So look at that face and just know she will not settle.

Alisa Manjarrez: (29:27)
Exactly. Ain’t that the truth.

Rose Aviles: (29:32)
And that’s the perfect way to go into 2022. Having these conversations really helps remind us that we’re not alone in this. We’re all going through this same thing and trying to figure out. What are the next steps? Do I stay? Do I go? I think if we’re questioning if we’ve got to go, we got to go.

Alisa Manjarrez: (29:54)
Yeah. I was just going to ask. What would you tell our listeners who are experiencing this see saw feeling?

Rose Aviles: (30:02)
It changes from day to day because we’re human. And things around us, the circumstances, as you mentioned earlier, change. I’ll just give you one more quick example. My old deputy director, Susan Thaler, I’ll even say her name because she’s the most wonderful person, wonderful boss, profound management that I’ve ever been involved in. She was a mentor, she was an advocate. We were all hoping for her to get the director position. If she was director, I would die there. I would not leave. I would just continue through life and be happy and just ready to go every morning.

Alisa Manjarrez: (30:49)
Yeah. That’s so cool.

Rose Aviles: (30:51)
She’s that person. She retired. And then recently, I got the news, actually this morning, I got the news from the new deputy director that she said that she was willing to come back to the library to work part-time after she retired. So it’s a whole different position, and it’s her in the flesh being in the building, which changes a lot, circumstantially.

Alisa Manjarrez: (31:21)
Well, it could change for you to know that if you go, she’ll be there for your people.

Rose Aviles: (31:28)
It does. I teared when the … The new deputy director was probably like, “Gosh, I hope I make someone in my life feel like this.”

Alisa Manjarrez: (31:39)
Yeah, what an honor.

Rose Aviles: (31:41)
It is, and she is an honor to be just around, even as an individual. She’s just amazing spirited woman. And when she told me, I called my mom immediately and said, “Oh, my God, a wrench was just put in my train of thought of what my future plans are right now. Susan’s coming back to the library.” And so I don’t really know, even though she’s there, it changes a lot of things. It changes going in and feeling good to see these great faces and great people, but it doesn’t change the main-

Alisa Manjarrez: (32:24)
Issue at hand.

Rose Aviles: (32:25)
Correct, because she’s not the director.

Alisa Manjarrez: (32:28)
Okay. I have something to say to our listeners. And Rose, add whatever comes to mind because I’ve been thinking about this. For any listeners who are not sure if they should stay or go in their current positions, whatever their circumstances is, one thing I want to tell you is, I have two conflicting things. One is if you’re not ready, you’re not ready. And no matter how many people around you are telling you, you need to go, or you need to stay, it’s very important for you to be true to yourself in those moments, and make that decision for you.

Alisa Manjarrez: (33:10)
The other part that I want to say that’s a little bit contradictory to that is if you need that push to take you over the edge, to make that decision, because you know, that you know, that you know it’s time to go, use today’s conversation as that push to kind of get you out of your head and out of all the what ifs and maybes and potentials, and use today’s conversation to put a stake in the ground and decide. So if you are ready, do it now, change course without hesitation. If you’re not, take the time that you need, but get to a resolution either way. You either want to be 100% in or 100% out. And see what it feels like, it’s probably going to be uncomfortable either way because like we just talked about, it’s all uncomfortable, yes, no, maybe, all, getting to those places.

Rose Aviles: (34:06)
Very uncomfortable. And for a while, you might not feel comfortable, even after you make the decision of going. So yeah, I agree with Alisa 100%. If you’re questioning it and you have doubts, do without. And that’s the best motto to follow because there’s something within you that just is telling you like hey, poking you every day, every night. What are you doing? You’re still there. You could be doing something else, taking that time and applying it to something that really matters most to you. So I absolutely support Alisa’s message there.

Alisa Manjarrez: (34:49)
Rose, thank you so much for sharing and coming back and sharing all these in between moments. It’s a really difficult place to be, and I thank you for opening up your world to America.

Rose Aviles: (35:07)
And all the listeners. Who knows? It’s global, it’s universal. I don’t think that this is just American women who are dealing with this. I think even men, men are currently dealing with this. If you’re out there and you’re listening, and you need a little empowerment, it’s okay. You can contact any of us and say, “I listened to your show,” and you guys empowered me to have a conversation about being a man who has a boss who’s just not fulfilling your greatest dreams, or making you feel good day to day. And it’s not always going to be perfect. Most importantly, I’ve learned through my journey, Alisa, that even though there are people who you just won’t get on with period, there are ways to make it work and still feel fulfilled in your role.

Rose Aviles: (36:04)
But I do want to leave the listeners with this. I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and I’ve tried, and this is not just in the making of a baby here, this is I knew before I got pregnant. I knew before I even met my partner that I was on my way out while he was on his way in. That’s not to say I didn’t give him a chance because I gave him a great one, two, three, maybe four.

Alisa Manjarrez: (36:38)
Want to know how breaking the rules can help you level up your career game? Search What Rules!? Podcast on any social media platform and join our members only group on LinkedIn, where we discuss rule breaking strategies for multicultural women. What Rules!? is a production of Color Forward. The show is produced by me, Alisa Manjarrez, with editing and fabulous sound design by Mathr de Leon. Visit colorforward.com for more stories, events, and of course, all the epidemics of What Rules!?

Rose Aviles: (37:08)
And that’s a wrap. Okay, that’s 2021, guys. Next time you talk to me, I might be asking for donations for my daughter, some groceries.

Alisa Manjarrez: (37:22)
Please send diapers.